The FCR Next Gen Mod Review

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Rufio2031

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Jul 3, 2017
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That is why I responded to you directly in the thread, I'm not answering for FCR I'm directing my comments to you about a broad statement.
My feedback was based off not being able to load Papy Atlanta or California, so that naturally kind of eliminated BBMC being the cause for whatever is causing my game to explode. My thoughts were intended to be broad so that it also included myself and BBMC, and my response was intended for you not FCR since they didn't say anything. In no way was I suggesting the tracks don't play a role. I can understand the argument being that I've worked on tracks, but my honest opinion is that the cars are the largest factor because the results are compounded. It is extremely unlikely that a track design will throw so many polys and HQ textures so close to the player at once. Closest version of that probably being the Roval, which is...unstable at times. I respect your input and feedback, but like I said, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm trying to be respectful and helpful.
 

Wheatenland

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Apr 9, 2017
25
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Rufio,

I didn't put words in your month... I responded to a comment that you said "My concern with the new mods was that I feel that MENCS19 was at the extreme limit for what the game can handle" I just posted my thoughts on that subject. I understand your point of view and I know you understand mine. It's a trade off that all track and mod makers have to decide were they are going to set the limit and hope it works with most of the masses.

I appreciate your respect comment, I think we both have respect for each other.

Let's hope you get to the bottom of why your having issues getting this mod to run.
FYI: I had some issues when it first came out but when they released the revised dat file it corrected some of the issues.
 

Rufio2031

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Jul 3, 2017
106
43
When I say mods, I mean cars, tracks, sounds, effects, etc. I believe MENCS19 was at the extreme limit because a full field barely worked on a normal papy track. DMR, or whatever that other mod was looked great, but was it just too much. I don't have the absolute greatest CPU in the world, but it's pretty dang good.

Unfortunately, I don't have much in terms of debugging skills for car mods. I have the patch and that didn't do anything for me. The shadows off did seem to work, but I see that as taking away from the game rather than the mod adding to it. It's an opinion, I know. What causes the problems with shadows being on, I haven't the slightest clue.

Keeping in mind that I don't know much about car mods, my uneducated guess is that the cars are too many polys. It's very possible these cars are less poly than MENCS, I simply do not know, but that's just my guess.
 

scottj63

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Hot Pass Member
Feb 16, 2020
38
18
I am not a fan of modern Nascar (stopped watching when playoffs and stages started) but I downloaded the mod to see how it looks and runs.....Runs fine on my gaming laptop maxed out. I just don't like the look of the new cars though. They run fine on any track I have.

Scott in the Philippines
 

Wheatenland

Active Member
Hot Pass Member
Apr 9, 2017
25
18
When I say mods, I mean cars, tracks, sounds, effects, etc. I believe MENCS19 was at the extreme limit because a full field barely worked on a normal papy track. DMR, or whatever that other mod was looked great, but was it just too much. I don't have the absolute greatest CPU in the world, but it's pretty dang good.

Unfortunately, I don't have much in terms of debugging skills for car mods. I have the patch and that didn't do anything for me. The shadows off did seem to work, but I see that as taking away from the game rather than the mod adding to it. It's an opinion, I know. What causes the problems with shadows being on, I haven't the slightest clue.

Keeping in mind that I don't know much about car mods, my uneducated guess is that the cars are too many polys. It's very possible these cars are less poly than MENCS, I simply do not know, but that's just my guess.
Rufio,

I'm not sure the ploy count is the issue but I agree it can't be ruled out. The reason I say this is I can run the FCR mod with shadows from objects on cars but it's not working, I think they guys have more to look into as far as code. Is this behind some of the lower frame rates? I can't say but it could be that there are errors in the coding that causing an issue as well.

I ran FCR, DMR sprint cup, and MENCS19 at BBMC Daytona and MENCS19 and DMR sprint Cup ran about the same as far as frame rate. FCR is lower by about 5 to 10 fps depending on the location on the track. I did stay above 38 fps with full field in front of me coming out of turn 4 However after testing all three mods back to back. DMR has a very smooth fender wells, high res cockpit as well as the proper ride height. I also noticed that DMR has object shadows from buildings on the exterior of the car that nether of the other two mods had.

Again I will say a big thanks to FCR for their work but I agree there are some things that I hope V2 will address.

1. Finding the issue behind the frame rate drain
2. Fix the ride height on the cars... even in full race speeds they look way to high... Lowering the back height was a good idea that someone posted
3. Fix the fender well so they don't look so choppy,
4. Correct shadows refection off objects on the cars. For interior and exterior
5. Enlarge the Gauges to make them more useful in the interior driving mode.

Freddy
FSE Tracks.
 

Mystical

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Dec 21, 2017
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I can't say but it could be that there are errors in the coding that causing an issue as well.

There cannot be a code error, or at least in the sense that it counts a 'failure'. Make3do.exe when it compiles a 3do file will output an error if there is a literal code error and no 3do will be generated. Running make3do.exe with -v also enables extra output to find errors if the code fails to compile (failed to make a 3do) -v added in commandline is very helpful then becasue every step make3do.exe takes when compiling will be listed and you can see every mesh it imports, links, and creates in a 3do compiling process.

Now in terms of code optimization there could be possible avenues to make a mod more stable. There are ways you can make a mod using the same textures and meshes while having code that is different. One modder could group things differently together or call certain pieces first and others later in the code. Different combos like that could possibly make the final result 3do more or less stable. Maybe even doing lots of texture swaps or copy command could impact things. I've never really tried to make a non-optimized or unstable mod so always had neat code. For example, I never really got many complaints from users that my ICR mod crashed or was unstable (except low-end laptop pc's) and the mod was at the same levels as the Splash n' Go Gen6 19' mod with LOD 1 being several thousand tris.

My process of code for a mod usually goes in each section like:
1 - import all the meshes from my PAS scene(s) and define them with a name (i generally stick with one master PAS scene for interior and exterior, you can have a ton of separate ones if you want but when its all in one scene its way easier to edit when you need to visually align other parts)
2 - define the purpose of each imported mesh (for example if one mesh is meant to be a flap define all the flap code for it, at this point in the code that mesh would be 'functional' for its purpose. If a mesh is the exact same across the 4 different car makes for example I will literally just use that same mesh 4 times as one single mesh in the code and if the texture needs to be different do a texture swap or define it as the paint-job so it will be customizable to the player with the template for a mod.
3 - between the damaged and non-damaged state of a car all the areas on the non-damaged car you cannot see I reduce the poly count or simply delete it.
4 - group all similar defined meshes into their LOD groups and when I can get away wth it to reduce poly count even more just cram in EMPTY_MESH which is an empty mesh container that acts like a mesh. Further optimizations for any textures that are not paintable I define lower resolution textures for the meshes in LOD's farther away from the player. Like no reason to use a 2048x204 chassis texture for LOD 11, by then I'd just use like a 256x256 or even a 128x128.
5 - group all meshes and LOD groups into their respective sets, for example all the car body pieces as one group, wheels, etc etc, then I have one 'name' I cna call in the code in the future that includes all those pieces as 'one'
6 - with all the final grouped meshes I do the final definitions or outputs such as all the parts for one make and the car ID its for, then have the final make3do output command.

There are way more tricks that can be done to optimize a mod but I'd say this is the most common methods I do.

My process could be done very different as well. Another modder could import just one mesh, define its purpose, then move onto the next mesh, repeat etc etc, maybe group a few, import another mesh and definite its purpose, then move to doing some damage state code for the exterior, import an interior mesh and definite it, swap back to exterior mesh code, etc etc. That would be really messy but I have no idea if when compiling that process actually will result in the final 'product' of a 3do being more unstable or 'read' different by NR2003.
 

Wheatenland

Active Member
Hot Pass Member
Apr 9, 2017
25
18
There cannot be a code error, or at least in the sense that it counts a 'failure'. Make3do.exe when it compiles a 3do file will output an error if there is a literal code error and no 3do will be generated. Running make3do.exe with -v also enables extra output to find errors if the code fails to compile (failed to make a 3do) -v added in commandline is very helpful then becasue every step make3do.exe takes when compiling will be listed and you can see every mesh it imports, links, and creates in a 3do compiling process.

Now in terms of code optimization there could be possible avenues to make a mod more stable. There are ways you can make a mod using the same textures and meshes while having code that is different. One modder could group things differently together or call certain pieces first and others later in the code. Different combos like that could possibly make the final result 3do more or less stable. Maybe even doing lots of texture swaps or copy command could impact things. I've never really tried to make a non-optimized or unstable mod so always had neat code. For example, I never really got many complaints from users that my ICR mod crashed or was unstable (except low-end laptop pc's) and the mod was at the same levels as the Splash n' Go Gen6 19' mod with LOD 1 being several thousand tris.

My process of code for a mod usually goes in each section like:
1 - import all the meshes from my PAS scene(s) and define them with a name (i generally stick with one master PAS scene for interior and exterior, you can have a ton of separate ones if you want but when its all in one scene its way easier to edit when you need to visually align other parts)
2 - define the purpose of each imported mesh (for example if one mesh is meant to be a flap define all the flap code for it, at this point in the code that mesh would be 'functional' for its purpose. If a mesh is the exact same across the 4 different car makes for example I will literally just use that same mesh 4 times as one single mesh in the code and if the texture needs to be different do a texture swap or define it as the paint-job so it will be customizable to the player with the template for a mod.
3 - between the damaged and non-damaged state of a car all the areas on the non-damaged car you cannot see I reduce the poly count or simply delete it.
4 - group all similar defined meshes into their LOD groups and when I can get away wth it to reduce poly count even more just cram in EMPTY_MESH which is an empty mesh container that acts like a mesh. Further optimizations for any textures that are not paintable I define lower resolution textures for the meshes in LOD's farther away from the player. Like no reason to use a 2048x204 chassis texture for LOD 11, by then I'd just use like a 256x256 or even a 128x128.
5 - group all meshes and LOD groups into their respective sets, for example all the car body pieces as one group, wheels, etc etc, then I have one 'name' I cna call in the code in the future that includes all those pieces as 'one'
6 - with all the final grouped meshes I do the final definitions or outputs such as all the parts for one make and the car ID its for, then have the final make3do output command.

There are way more tricks that can be done to optimize a mod but I'd say this is the most common methods I do.

My process could be done very different as well. Another modder could import just one mesh, define its purpose, then move onto the next mesh, repeat etc etc, maybe group a few, import another mesh and definite its purpose, then move to doing some damage state code for the exterior, import an interior mesh and definite it, swap back to exterior mesh code, etc etc. That would be really messy but I have no idea if when compiling that process actually will result in the final 'product' of a 3do being more unstable or 'read' different by NR2003.
Now I know why Sean and I did tracks…LOL.
Thanks for the break down on the process Mystical, that is a very interesting read on part of the car mod development.

FYI: Something that I didn’t include in my last post was I tested your mod as well to compare. While frame rates are better your release has the same issue with shadows off buildings into cockpit or exterior of cars doesn’t work.
CWS2015, NXS20 and DMR cup mod worked with this active in the game and all had shadow off the my dash as well as off the cars around me from the buildings, I used the same track with all my test and I used several mods to compare. For some reason with FCR this seems to be the breaking point for some of the users when this is turned on.

I know there is a lot that goes into car mods I hope the team can tweak a few things down the road after a much deserved break from all their hard work on V1

Freddy
FSE Tracks
 
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