The FCR Next Gen Mod Review

[Wheatenland]

First off I want to thank all the guys involved in the FCR mod.. Nice work guys, I know what it's like to pour so much time into a project.

The Good: The models and templates are really nice. I think the guys did a great job on the overall design. The crash models are nice and wheels and tires look very good. The interior model looks very close to the real car and it is a nice change from other models out there.

The not so good: I think the wheel wells need a bit more smoothing compared to other mods I've seen in the past. I know there is a balance between polygon count and looks but this is an area I hope they address down the road. Also I would have like to have seen a digital dash... but if it was to much to take on the current one needs to be larger for driving behind the wheel. My last race I ran at Daytona I ran out of gas on the back stretch because I can't see where the needle mark was and I'm using a 34" ultra wide monitor. IRacing has address this with a bit larger gauges area then what you might see in the real car but allows the driver to be able to read what is displayed on a computer monitor. Also the ride height on the AI cars seems a bit too high especially under race conditions.

I hope FCR continues to improve their release, for a first time mod release it was a very good job. I for one appreciate all the hard work and the fact they have made an old game fresh again,

Freddy
FSE Tracks

 

[RicardoG]

I agree with the ride height, a possible workaround to the NR2003 AI height issue, is to set the rear height lower than the front on the 3D model... This is something i remember Cosmin did with the MENCS19 / WC98 mods on beta testing days and looked nice.
Obviously it affects the player`s car, but nothing serious, and it also reduces the splitter sinking into the track.

Possibly this is something they could add or fix later on.
Other than that, it is an amazing mod!

 

[Highbank]

I hate it when a review becomes a place for folks to pile on with nitpicking small issues. Can we celebrate the mod a bit more than point out flaws, after all how many of us even have a clue as to how to make a mod...be happy you got one for a completely new car model.

I think it's stunning myself. Good for the team responsible for making the NCS22 happen.

 

[James Hodge]

My last race I ran at Daytona I ran out of gas on the back stretch because I can't see where the needle mark was and I'm using a 34" ultra wide monitor.

Any reason why you wouldn't use the F3 menu to keep an eye on your remaining fuel? Even when using other mods I've never relied on gauges alone.

 

[Wheatenland]

Any reason why you wouldn't use the F3 menu to keep an eye on your remaining fuel? Even when using other mods I've never relied on gauges alone.

That is one more thing to keep open when driving and I like using the gauges. Never had an issues in other mods.

 

[bamaracing]

I am amazing how every mod release looks better in a 19 year old game

 

[James Hodge]

Fair enough. I always have one of the F menus open and just toggle back and forth as needed. I also did some playing around with Camhack and was able to get a more zoomed in view of the gauges.

 

[Wheatenland]

I hate it when a review becomes a place for folks to pile on with nitpicking small issues. Can we celebrate the mod a bit more than point out flaws, after all how many of us even have a clue as to how to make a mod...be happy you got one for a completely new car model.

I think it's stunning myself. Good for the team responsible for making the NCS22 happen.

Highbank,

I see your point however, there is nothing wrong with pointing out issues with a mod or track if done in the right way.. As someone who worked on Tracks for years and worked with a lot of the old timers from the Track and Car teams, I liked having people point out the good and the bad of anything I worked on, it helped improve the next update.

What I do hate is when people that are not really a big part of a update start trying to protect and kiss butt to the developers like they were part of the team or trying to make brownie points. That use to frustrate me more than anything when I was releasing tracks, people speaking for me when they weren't part of it.

Again, as I stated in my review and other post.... Hats off to the team and great job but there are things that would be nice to see in a V2 down the road if the guys are up for it.

This is from someone that has been around the papy sim from the days of N1.

Thanks,
Freddy
FSE Tracks

 

[Wheatenland]

Fair enough. I always have one of the F menus open and just toggle back and forth as needed. I also did some playing around with Camhack and was able to get a more zoomed in view of the gauges.
View attachment 124600

That is more in line with the size James. Splash and Go did an update that dropped in the the main mod folder so people had a better view... Maybe that is something that could be added at some point.

Also I know there was a trade off trying to get the mod out for people to use for this season so the team had to go with what they could find as far as information. Now that I seen the race I think the display is bigger than what we saw in some of the test cars.

FYI: Thanks for your work on the project as well. Nice templates for the cars. I'm painting on my personal one now.

Thanks,
Freddy

 

[James Hodge]

There is a mid-season update planned for the mod once we get better looks at the interiors with make-specific layouts. What was included at release was a best estimate based on the test cars, so what comes in the future can and should be more accurate. I'm looking forward to having some fun with the generic model's textures.

 

[Rollo75]

Speaking as someone with a compy with potato quality processors, the FCR 22 is a little resource heavy.
I can get around it a bit by limiting NR2003 to 30fps.

It looks bloody fantastic though

 

[Rufio2031]

My concern with the new mods was that I feel that MENCS19 was at the extreme limit for what the game can handle. Anything more and we'll start running into issues which it feels like we're running into with having to disable game features in order to get the game to run. I fully understand the desire for more detailed models, after all it's what we strived for with BBMC tracks, but as much as it pains any content creator to hear, with the cars being the most resource intensive part of the game I feel like less is more at this point. I can't really use the mod and sadly will probably stick with MENCS19 unless some performance improves.
Don't get me wrong, the cars look great and am super pumped we had a team get together to put something out. Thankful that @James Hodge and the team took on the challenge and looking forward to seeing if/how it evolves. It's just unfortunate that I feel like our community's skill and ambitions have surpassed what this dinosaur can take.

 

[Wheatenland]

My concern with the new mods was that I feel that MENCS19 was at the extreme limit for what the game can handle. Anything more and we'll start running into issues which it feels like we're running into with having to disable game features in order to get the game to run. I fully understand the desire for more detailed models, after all it's what we strived for with BBMC tracks, but as much as it pains any content creator to hear, with the cars being the most resource intensive part of the game I feel like less is more at this point. I can't really use the mod and sadly will probably stick with MENCS19 unless some performance improves.
Don't get me wrong, the cars look great and am super pumped we had a team get together to put something out. Thankful that @James Hodge and the team took on the challenge and looking forward to seeing if/how it evolves. It's just unfortunate that I feel like our community's skill and ambitions have surpassed what this dinosaur can take.

Rufio,

I've done a lot of testing over the years, all the way back to Revamped Reloaded days with Shane. I can tell you if you can't run this mod it's because you're probably only using it with your tracks. Don't get me wrong I love your work but, I can tell you from doing years of track updates you guys pushed over the limits of the game with some of your tracks. I see frame rates in the 70s to 100s with the FCR mod on other tracks, BBMC Daytona drops into the 40s. Personally I think infield and grand stands can be a bit lower res and keep a bit higher on track texters which allows for better framerates with new car mods. Remember at the end of the day I'm tailgating the car in front of me on the track and that is my focus when I race, not the palm trees in the infield.

Please don't take this wrong but, I just find it funny that the one guy that says the limit is reached on mods and it too detailed is the guy with tracks like BBMC ISM 405mb and BBMC Bristol with a file size of 260mb while the last Bristol Sean and I did was 57mb. LOL. I think there is a middle ground that allows mod creators to still push limits on what the sim driver is looking at vs what you see track side that you are passing at 180mph.

Again I respect your work just pointing out things I've seen for years when creating textures for tracks and trying to find balance, there were several nights I went back and lowered infield textures and played with track side signage to try and find that frame rate middle ground. Back then I was using the DMR mod which I still feel like to this day has some of the smoothest lines and interior detail of any cup mod.

Respectfully,

Freddy
FSE Tracks

 

[Rufio2031]

I am yet to even attempt to open a BBMC track with the mod. The cars and the track work hand-in-hand, obviously. Don't assume mate, I am not so naïve, nor am I alone in my problems with the mod. There are also separate aspects to what part of the engine can begin to fail, file size is not the only stat.
Ever wonder how the game runs well in Practice or alone on the track, and then chugs in traffic or the back of the pack? Most the time on BBMC tracks I get 40-60 FPS, except Daytona or starting at the back of the pack when the game is rendering all the cars at once in detail; it gets cut in half. With MENCS19, FPS hardly improved when at the back of the pack on a papy track. Think about it...

We know we pushed the limits at BBMC, but we continued to learn and cut back dramatically. Which is why you can see the 405mb -> 260mb change. Could we have gone lower? Of course! But it didn't seem that we had to since the game, for the larger majority, was working.

You could say the same here. If the game works for the mod makers, who's to say they should spend another minute trying to optimize it, it's their prerogative and in a weird way if I were in their shoes I'd look at my post and say "oh well". I was simply posting my review and concerns, please don't speak for me.

 

[J.R. Franklin]

I have a 6 year old Windows 7 PC. It was a pretty stout rig in it's day, but not so much by today's standards. I can run all of those beautiful BBMC tracks with this new mod and am able to maintain frame rates in the 30-40 FPS range and up depending on where I am in the field of 40 cars, which is fine for NR2003. I've always said the benchmark to begin introducing stuttering and "laggy-ness" (if that is even a word?) is below 30 FPS. If you can stay above 30 FPS, the game should run just fine.

One of the ways I am able to run these awesome BBMC tracks with this fantastic new mod is that I take the time to downsize all of the pit crews from 1024 or 2048 res down to 512 res. It's fine to keep the cars themselves at 2048 res, but make sure to add matching crews that are only 512 res. Once I do that, I use Winmip 2 to compress the car files with those 512 res crews on them. That will make a significant reduction in each car's car file size. I know it takes some time, but after awhile, you build up a collection of pit crews to match every car scheme that are 512 res. I've said this for years, I doubt that anyone can really see the difference between a 512 crew and a 1024 or 2048 res crew.

It is also very important that people make all of the required adjustments outlined in the The Ben Crazy videos on You Tube for optimizing your NR2003 game. (He has 2 videos, but honestly if you only do the things recommended in the first video (

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KULusAV1eI&t=2s
) you should be good to go).

Secondly, if you go to the BBMC site, they have a "Performance Guide" section (http://bb-mc.co/performance-guide/) which also offers great tips for improving your enjoyment of NR2003.

One last thing, if doing all of these does not help your FPS enough, go the next step and export each car file and resize it from 2048 down to 1024 res. Then re-import it with compression with Winmip2. You can also import it onto the cars in-game with compression turned on in NR2003, but personally, I think that Winmip2 compression provides a cleaner looking car file.

Being primarily a "track builder" guy, I am also guilty of trying to push the envelope of graphically rich tracks much like my friends Bryan and Michael of BBMC. Fortunately, the community has been very adept at finding solutions and work-arounds to allow us all to keep enjoying this awesome nearly 20-year old sim. It just may take a little work on your end, but the end results will be well worth it.

 

[James Hodge]

I think we still need to take into account the end user's computer specs when it comes to the mod's performance. Even with a nearly 20 year old game, when you add higher detail elements to it, you're in turn going to need a higher end system to run them well. Mods are essentially bringing a game from 2003 specs up to 2022 specs, and if you're running a computer from 2013, it's not surprising that you'll have issues. I personally am running on a machine I built myself 1.5 years ago and I never dip below 30 FPS with this mod, at BBMC tracks with a full field ahead of me. If I were to dig my old prebuilt from 2012 out of storage and try to run the same settings...I'd likely have issues doing so. Or I'd at least have to turn off features or lower some settings. At the same time, that 2013 PC ran the very demanding DMR mods pretty well, but my previous PC from 2008 or so would have trouble putting out decent frame rates. I'm not saying to go out and upgrade your PC *just* to play NR2003 but at the same time I think with higher end mods added to the game, it should be expected that higher end equipment may be needed to run them.

 

[Rollo75]

I'm not saying to go out and upgrade your PC *just* to play NR2003 but at the same time I think with higher end mods added to the game, it should be expected that higher end equipment may be needed to run them.

+1 this

Additional:

I am saying that if you want the latest version of stuff, then build it yourself on an older and smaller mod. I like BR 15 Gen 6 because it is complex enough without being taxing on old machines.

 

[Rufio2031]

Agreed, it's not the responsibility of the content creator to worry about the PC's of the users. If (it's a big IF) you wanted to please everyone, then you have to decrease detail dramatically which isn't appealing to the creator. Though we know NR2003 can be finicky even with good machines, if it works for you then it's hard to say it doesn't work at all.

For myself, the creativity and challenge to making something really cool and high quality with this engine far surpassed supporting everyone's machines. We created out of passion and shared our creations with others because we wanted them to enjoy what we've built and share the excitement together. If we don't enjoy what we built because it feels more like work than a pass time, well that's when the creating stops. I'm patiently waiting to see where team FCR goes next. If it doesn't work for me, I can find a way to continue my love for the game without it. It's a bummer for me, but everything is all good. My 2 cents were shared for consideration and I have no right to ask for more than that.

One of the ways I am able to run these awesome BBMC tracks with this fantastic new mod is that I take the time to downsize all of the pit crews from 1024 or 2048 res down to 512 res. It's fine to keep the cars themselves at 2048 res, but make sure to add matching crews that are only 512 res. Once I do that, I use Winmip 2 to compress the car files with those 512 res crews on them. That will make a significant reduction in each car's car file size. I know it takes some time, but after awhile, you build up a collection of pit crews to match every car scheme that are 512 res. I've said this for years, I doubt that anyone can really see the difference between a 512 crew and a 1024 or 2048 res crew.

Absolutely 100%. I used to do that with the majority of mine as well. It does make an enormous difference and it's a very large portion of texture memory you end up saving. The thing with cars is every decision you make you get to multiply it by 40 or so. So that's both a positive and negative thing. If my math is correct (very questionable ) that's 20MB of texture memory saved for a 40 car field, which is equivalent to about 7 cars/crews.

 

[Wheatenland]

I am yet to even attempt to open a BBMC track with the mod. The cars and the track work hand-in-hand, obviously. Don't assume mate, I am not so naïve, nor am I alone in my problems with the mod. There are also separate aspects to what part of the engine can begin to fail, file size is not the only stat.
Ever wonder how the game runs well in Practice or alone on the track, and then chugs in traffic or the back of the pack? Most the time on BBMC tracks I get 40-60 FPS, except Daytona or starting at the back of the pack when the game is rendering all the cars at once in detail; it gets cut in half. With MENCS19, FPS hardly improved when at the back of the pack on a papy track. Think about it...

We know we pushed the limits at BBMC, but we continued to learn and cut back dramatically. Which is why you can see the 405mb -> 260mb change. Could we have gone lower? Of course! But it didn't seem that we had to since the game, for the larger majority, was working.

You could say the same here. If the game works for the mod makers, who's to say they should spend another minute trying to optimize it, it's their prerogative and in a weird way if I were in their shoes I'd look at my post and say "oh well". I was simply posting my review and concerns, please don't speak for me.

Well, l think all who have worked on mods or tracks fully understands that depending on the amount of cars and location on the track it will impact the frame rate, that comes with basic testing of mods or tracks.

And let me make it clear my last post was directed more toward your remark about mod markers in general going beyond the limits of the game while your tracks are pushing the same limits. That is why I responded to you directly in the thread, I'm not answering for FCR I'm directing my comments to you about a broad statement.

Again, I appreciate all the hard work your group has done with tracks. I've personally spent many many nights working to early morning on mip files. At the same time I enjoyed working with people all over the world back in the day. I hope down the road my work and family time will allow me to maybe do some track work again or help support a existing group.

At the end of the day since it not just your tracks and the new mod together giving you problems I'm not sure why Rufio you or some of the others out there are having issues , James made a valid point with hardware. While my system is several years old it is handling your tracks and all the current mods with everything cranked up. With using any high-car mods it dips into the low 40s at Daytona but, it still runs smooth.

FYI: I did the something as J.R. Franklin and reduced my pit crew res down, Front stretch is always a tuff one.

Regards,
Freddy
FSE Tracks.

 

[Wheatenland]

I think we still need to take into account the end user's computer specs when it comes to the mod's performance. Even with a nearly 20 year old game, when you add higher detail elements to it, you're in turn going to need a higher end system to run them well. Mods are essentially bringing a game from 2003 specs up to 2022 specs, and if you're running a computer from 2013, it's not surprising that you'll have issues. I personally am running on a machine I built myself 1.5 years ago and I never dip below 30 FPS with this mod, at BBMC tracks with a full field ahead of me. If I were to dig my old prebuilt from 2012 out of storage and try to run the same settings...I'd likely have issues doing so. Or I'd at least have to turn off features or lower some settings. At the same time, that 2013 PC ran the very demanding DMR mods pretty well, but my previous PC from 2008 or so would have trouble putting out decent frame rates. I'm not saying to go out and upgrade your PC *just* to play NR2003 but at the same time I think with higher end mods added to the game, it should be expected that higher end equipment may be needed to run them.

James,

Very good point... Most Gamers updated their PCs anyway to handle new games over time. Well... before the pandemic we all did, I waited 6 months on a list from EVGA to get a new 3060 card at MSRP and I was lucky to get that. LOL

Freddy
FSE Tracks