Track builder/ini/LP expert advice needed - pit problems

[bearlythere12]

ai have one hell of a time entering/exiting the pits. A few sneak in there but it's all herky-jerky.

- After race a few will try to go down pit lane but they get very confused right around the pit entrance, even though i've got a lengthy pit entrance before coming up to pit lane. They studder-step all over the place unable to follow the LPs, traffic jam behind them.

- ai exiting pits (in practice) go full bonzai, even before pitlane ends, well past the 35mph set limit. Pedal to the metal off to the left of the pit LPs. B/c its dirt they go off spinning into the infield. And some of them go a bit to the right of the pit LPs.

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- LPs seem fine (i've redone them 10x's over) and the same problem happens every single time at the same points.

- track itself seems fine in that there aren't any disconnected track sections. I made certain to add a few x-sections around the problem areas as a precaution to no avail.

- track is 1/4mi (Butters Rule applied), and the original centerline does cut thru the pits. I wonder if this is somehow causing problems.

- i've adjusted the pit ini stuff (again 10x's over) and have a little luck w/ pit exit, but problems persist at pit entrance no matter what differing dlongs i enter.

- AppRuleEnterPits do anything other than black flag you? Seems to have no effect on the ai.

 

[JNorton (WKC)]

The AI really don't care about pit LP files other than where you tell then to connect for entering the pits and where you tell them to join the race line again upon entering the track. Once they are in the pit area they should follow the LP files to their stalls.

 

[bearlythere12]

Yeah, thanks...you're confirming what i already "knew". Black art, this track making business. I'm missing something obvious...obviously.

It's just that the ai act like the LP's aren't connected right around the pit entrance/exit. More so the entrance. Or like they're confused by an overlapping LP trying to connect to another.

Hate to release this track as a beta and give up on it when it's so damn close ya know.

 

[bearlythere12]

Okay, now this is alien territory. All i did was delete pit stalls 0-6 and 23-36...all the stalls on the right side of the track centerline (in purple for those not Sandbox/Butters Rule savvy).

ai still lay out the anchors right before pit lane but now follow the orange line in attached pic.

Exiting ai no longer verge left of the pit LP, they all still pedal-to-the-metal out of there but go off even further to the right well off the track.

Anybody have a clue what's happening? I'm stumped.

 

[JNorton (WKC)]

Your pit stalls are outside of that purple line. Build them on the inside of it. Trust me.. They don't work if you have anything outside of that area. I've run into that several times on short tracks.

 

[bearlythere12]

Excellent, THANK YOU. You sir are a gentleman.

I was suspicious of that from the beginning...but not enough to actually go thru w/ a pit rebuild. Also explains why i had one hell of a time w/ the pit stalls (i do them manually). Around the centerline i'd get one guy perfectly aligned and it would skew the guys one stall in front and behind. Bizarre.

Now i gotta figure out why the hell the roads outside of the track are icy, even w/ a proper pavement setup. Probably the same centerline issue.

Again, big whopping thanks...i've got room for a distressed WKC billboard if you desire.

 

[JNorton (WKC)]

Now i gotta figure out why the hell the roads outside of the track are icy, even w/ a proper pavement setup. Probably the same centerline issue.

Are you using dirt setups for the cars or pavement? Dirt tracks are WAAAAAAAAAAY different compared to paved tracks. If so... Look at one of my dirt tracks. Load the setups and look at the track.ini settings. Also I wouldn't setup your tracks up for cup.. Their dirt. Use gns and cts.

 

[bearlythere12]

...i've got an absolute killer dirt setup going...at least in my own mind. Something is clearly strange happening outside of the centerline on the pavement roads out there. This damn track has been a problem child every step of the way.

I did try a couple of your tracks last night, Anderson and CMS. Anderson...and i'm not saying this to be nice...is the most fun i've had on ANY 1/4mi nr2k3 track. My only complaint was that you run out of gear exactly 1/2 way down the straight...easy remedy. I thought i was fast qualifying for the pole, but Tony Stewart got underneath me and i just could not real him back in during a 25 lap feature. And something seems magical about your setups under braking, i've never come close to creating that, same story w/ braking @ CMS.

Speaking of CMS, it's frustrating in that i'm fast thru the middle but terrible off. And i need to check out the ini and see what you got going on for the ai...I'm braking deep yet every now and then some guy dives under me, completely schooling me. For the record, thanks for CMS, i actually started a build of that place many years ago but lost it to a blown HD. I ran some hot laps at the actual track, some sort of old race car meet (my old man used to have a few old relics back then). They really let us go as fast as we wanted to, and the wailing of those old Offy engines still lingers in my mind. Don't remember the year, but i still had a full head of hair. I had forgotten just how wide that joint was, and how close i ran to the pit entrance wall coming off 4. Thanks for conjuring up those memories.

Quick question, do you mind if i use the Anderson cams for this dirt track? I get runtime errors w/ camedit, i have for years. Your cams are perfect for me other than pit2 if i recall. If not, it's cool.

 

[JNorton (WKC)]

Use the cams if they match up...

 

[Riviera71]

I get runtime errors w/ camedit, i have for years.

I have the same problem with camedit but n4cam still works. No pretty windows interface but who doesn't like some old school DOS?

 

[bearlythere12]

[---> bearlythere here. Just wanted to mention that this entire dialog isn't me. I've been running around every night trying to catch the very allusive Trackmaker. He doesn't have internet and i've been riding a bicycle around on these chilly nights attempting to catch him out walking his dog. I feel like a 1960's spy passing around state secrets. I don't want anybody here thinking i've got anything to do with building these tracks. I'm just a tester and uploader, although i do have some experience building tracks of my own, just never released any of them. Story for another day. <---]

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JNorton, 1000 thanks. Will probably use your cams this time around unless i figure out n4cam in a hurry.

Riviera, i'll give n4cam a try. I appreciate the head's up. DOS, eh? I'm so old i started out learning and using Unix before Windows 3.1 came out.

 

[Riviera71]

[---> bearlythere here. Just wanted to mention that this entire dialog isn't me. I've been running around every night trying to catch the very allusive Trackmaker. He doesn't have internet and i've been riding a bicycle around on these chilly nights attempting to catch him out walking his dog. I feel like a 1960's spy passing around state secrets. I don't want anybody here thinking i've got anything to do with building these tracks. I'm just a tester and uploader, although i do have some experience building tracks of my own, just never released any of them. Story for another day. <---]

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JNorton, 1000 thanks. Will probably use your cams this time around unless i figure out n4cam in a hurry.

Riviera, i'll give n4cam a try. I appreciate the head's up. DOS, eh? I'm so old i started out learning and using Unix before Windows 3.1 came out.

If you already know DOS and have worked with camedit before there isn't much to it

Not sure where to "officially" find n4cam anymore so here it is https://www.mediafire.com/file/6b2fvnbgdistyqh/n4cam.rar/file
Then there's this tutorial: http://www.thepits.us/files/tutorials/thepits_n2003_track_cameras_n4cam.pdf
Sadly most of the pictures are broken but atleast the "how to get going" is there.

If all you want to do is edit pit2.cam you start as described in the tutorial and then press T a few times until you're seeing Pit Camera 2 and start editing.
It's been a while since I made a pitcam so I'm not 100% sure but for Direction I think that 0 degrees is looking right (in main window sandbox) and 90 degrees is up.

Best part about n4cam (other than the fact that it, unlike camedit, is still working on win10 ) is that you can create new spectator cams. Go to any of the TV cams or Spectator and press 5, there you'll have the option to set it to 0 (regular tv cam with zoom in and out), 1 (fixed direction) and 2 (spectator cam, turns without zoom).
Take over distance, zoom, angle of vision and all that works the same as in camedit.

 

[bearlythere12]

Hearty thanks for the helping hand. You've saved me at least an hour of going thru old cd's even looking for the program. And who knows if i ever saved anything concerning the tutorial.

Now you've peaked my interest in old DOS games....down the rabbit hole i go........

 

[Riviera71]

Hearty thanks for the helping hand. You've saved me at least an hour of going thru old cd's even looking for the program. And who knows if i ever saved anything concerning the tutorial.

Now you've peaked my interest in old DOS games....down the rabbit hole i go........

Yeah, I played some old pinball games in dosbox for a while and iirc I also had ICR2 running. The game I really wanted to run again , HiOctane (bit like WipeOut with more pixelated graphics ), didn't work so well though. It ran way too fast lol

 

[bearlythere12]

Son of a...

Rebuilt pits w/in centerline and it did jack-squat. ai still rip out of there @ 60mph+ w/ a 35mph limit, kinda hang a bit of a left right before hitting the track and spinning off into the infield. Redid ALL ALL ALL (did i say all?) LPs and quadruple-checked ini settings.

They do enter the pits a little better but still under the influence of Jack Daniels.

I did figure out the pavement issue outside of the track. I had jacked up tire temps a long long time ago just seeing if it had any effect on my dirt setup. Was wondering if it were high enough maybe it would do something different on the dirt...it did nothing. So, NOT a centerline issue.

I'm just about done unless anyone can think of something i might've/probably messed up. Will just release as a beta, but kind of a pisser since i wanted to pave this place too. If i summon up some energy i could build infield pits...but VERY doubtful. Been working on this place for well over a year on/off since it's been nothin but a headache.

 

[Riviera71]

Hard to guess without seeing it "live" but have you looked at other tracks with a similar pit layout to see if anything's different?
Thunder Road and Bowman Gray are the first ones that comes to mind.

 

[bearlythere12]

No i haven't. I'll go digging thru my old cds. Maybe i'll do a "soft" release here after i clean up a few things, get the racing a bit more dialed in.

Thanks.

 

[bearlythere12]

Decided to just release the track warts-n-all probably next week as a beta. Kinda got the ai to work a bit better, strangely running limp.LP thru the pits and redoing the pit LPs, making them crossover minrace & minpanic in turn 4. Normally would cause chaos but for some reason the ai are cool with it. But there's always a couple of guys who waltz down the front-stretch and there's often a logjam at pit entrance after the race.

Thanks again guys...and Riviera, i'll give n4cam a try w/ my next track.

 

[Ceej]

I can take a look at this and see if I can be of any help, I've built a fair number of tracks although not any under a half mile.

 

[bearlythere12]

Thanks, Ceej. Decided i was tired of even looking at the track and released it earlier today. I'm onto the next build...