Editing a track converted with Noonan's converter

[ai_line_mod]

I have a strange problem. I converted a track with Noonan's converter, North Wilkesboro, from NL -> NR2003. The track loads and runs fine. However, opening the track in sandbox and saving it (no changes made), breaks the track LPs. Here are the steps I took:

1. 1. Noonan convert North Wilkesboro, NL -> NR2003
2. 2. Open NR2003 and confirm track opens in Single Race
3. 3. Unpack track.dat
4. 4. Copy all mips to trackmat (there is no trackmat in dat)
5. 5. Unpack shared.dat
6. 6. Open track.ptf
7. 7. Save. No to center track.
8. 8. Move track.ptf and trackmat folder to the track folder.
9. 9. Open NR2003 and load North Wilkesboro. Receive "Could not load the track. Cancelling the race weekend."
10. 10. Remove LPs and track now loads in Testing.

What is happening here? For thoroughness, I found two existing tracks where the LPs are interchangeable, North Wilkesboro WR and North Wilkesboro 1970 (links to download pages where you can find them). Interestingly, there is a very slight discrepancy in the track length (see this thread where I discovered that if interested), and some sections are also slightly different lengths. How is this possible, if the track LPs are interchangeable? Is the sandbox somehow opening the track/converting the sections incorrectly? If so, how were the track creators of the two linked tracks able to overcome this?

Furthermore, I have converted another track from NL, Riverside, and followed the same steps above: the same symptoms arise. Therefore, it can be safely assumed that it's an issue with the conversion opening up in Sandbox. Yet this does not explain how the LP files work with existing user made versions of wilkes. They must come from the conversion! How??

 

[fortine_oo]

It’s been a long time since I converted a track, but I’m pretty sure the lp’s aren’t transferable, regardless of track length.
There is some margin for different track lengths and still have the lp’s load/work. It’s not a specific number, but it’s a pretty small window.
Lp’s are rendered to a specific centerline, so even if tracks are the same length, if the centerline varies the lp path will be for the track the lp was created on. The same situation applies if you relocate the S/F line, the lp path will follow it’s original created path, i.e. the dlat/dlong distances don’t relocate to the new S/F point.

To your earlier converter posts…
re: converting tracks not on the Noonan track converter lists
It is my recollection you can convert any track from any game version (that the track converter says it converts. I know I converted a rather obscure track (from GPL IIRC) to nr2003 (and made some basic lp’s) for someone.
You rename the track to be converted to one of the tracknames that is on the list, then run the converter. I don’t remember exactly what needs to be renamed, but I would rename the track folder and dat at least, and any othe file that includes the trackname. I don’t recall whether you have to unpack the dat, I don’t think so, but if the dat is unpacked I’d rename the ptf file. After the track is converted you rename all the trackname files to whatever you want.

Good luck

 

[ai_line_mod]

Hmm. The LPs from the Noonan converted wilkes definitely work for the two NR2003 versions of Wilkes I linked to in the post. IF they aren't transferable, does that mean that the creators created the track around the converted LPs? That seems insane, if not impossible. However, you do provide an interesting clue: perhaps it is the centerline which has moved when the track ptf is opened in sandbox, and it needs to be moved back. Is this possible? (As an aside, the NL Riverside LPs did not work with the Riverside 1970 version which is apparently based from the conversion, so I need to see what's going on there.)

As for your Noonan converter workaround for other tracks: this is an interesting idea! I'll get to work on it, as soon as I figure out how to make the ptf compatible with its own LPs

 

[DaleTona]

As for your Noonan converter workaround for other tracks: this is an interesting idea! I'll get to work on it, as soon as I figure out how to make the ptf compatible with its own LPs

If that works as one would think it may, It could potentially allow me to convert the various fictional tracks exclusive to N3, or even potentially bring over ICR2 tracks(maybe?)

Would definitely add a solid chunk to the amount of tracks available for me to race.

 

[fortine_oo]

Re: “ It’s been a long time since I converted a track, but I’m pretty sure the lp’s aren’t transferable, regardless of track length. “

I’m referring to the various game version(s) lp’s, i.e. the lp’s are not converted to nr2003, new nr2003 lp’s need to be created.
Lp’s created on a nr2003 may be used on different nr2003 track versions as long as the total track length of each track is the same, or very close to the same. While the track will load in the game using lp’s from another version when the total track length is correct, the location of the S/F line of each track must be the same (or within a few meters) for the ai to work properly.

 

[ai_line_mod]

Re: “ It’s been a long time since I converted a track, but I’m pretty sure the lp’s aren’t transferable, regardless of track length. “

I’m referring to the various game version(s) lp’s, i.e. the lp’s are not converted to nr2003, new nr2003 lp’s need to be created.
Lp’s created on a nr2003 may be used on different nr2003 track versions as long as the total track length of each track is the same, or very close to the same. While the track will load in the game using lp’s from another version when the total track length is correct, the location of the S/F line of each track must be the same (or within a few meters) for the ai to work properly.

The Noonan converter definitely converts LPs from the older games to the NR4+ games. I was recently doing some investigation into the information contained in the LP files and while they are different between Papy versions, the same information is there, with the most recent NR games using a subset of the information that older games used. This leads me to believe that the converter is using the LPs from the older games to generate LPs for the newer games...

UNLESS the LPs are only there for the Noonan "approved" converted tracks (i.e. laid out in the readme with the converter) because they were created in NR2003 based on the converted track (as in, part of the Noonan package for the supported tracks was someone went through and created/supplied the LPs, which were then baked into the track conversion -- this would explain why the limp.lp exists).

Even if they created the LPs, as opposed to converting them from the older game, for the Noonan converter "package" this does not explain why the LPs which presumably were created in post conversion do not work with the track which they were created for. I mean, they do, but as soon as I save the ptf they were created for, they break.

 

[ai_line_mod]

Fortine_oo I stand corrected. This morning I got back on and compared the LP files from NL and NR2003 and see that they were indeed remade (by Noonan and crew), not converted. As you can see in the attached (NL on left, converted on right), there are a few curiosities: 1) the track length/number of segments between the NL and Noonan converted tracks are slightly different. 2) The LPs do in fact contain the same information, but the way they parse the "waypoints" (longitude) is different.

Still, this does not explain WHY the LPs which shipped with the converter DO work "out of the box" with no edits, but DONT work once the ptf is opened, and then saved with no changes, and furthermore, why those same LPs which shipped with the converter DO work with other versions of the track where the ptf has been edited.

Still scratching my head.

 

[bearlythere12]

Probably no help but hear me out. I've always thought that Sandbox was like building something in outer space. So if you're converting a track it's not necessarily oriented the same for the LPs to work. If you've ever looked at the 3dos at Indy in 3dsimmed (I'm 90% certain its Indy - the stands if i remember correctly), they're oriented differently. Standing on their side, not laying flat like in nature.


I always thought that maybe Indy was some sort of conversion from earlier Papy releases, that they re-used the 3dos (of course i'm probably 100% wrong). Kinda where my mind is at with what you're trying to do, that maybe those earlier tracks or even NL were built on a different plane. Like let's pretend tracks created in Sandbox are created flat on the ground while maybe older tracks and NL are created up on a chalkboard. Different plane...get it?


Of course I don't have a clue, just spitballing. And if you can create a NL track using Sandbox, well, ignore my blog.

 

[ai_line_mod]

That's a thought, and it gave me an idea. I've never used 3dSimEd, but for the purposes of trying to crack this case, I tried it out. This is what I found:

• - The ptf as extracted directly from the track dat opens fine in 3dSimEd
• - The ptf, after being opened and saved in Sandbox, doesn't open and gives the following error: Problem Building Geometry (attached)

So in some sense this doesn't tell me anything new, but in another, maybe it suggests... something? What is sandbox doing to that ptf?

 

[bearlythere12]

Did a little online sleuthing, came across this concerning 3dsimed:

"Exporting model from blender (any format), then re-importing into 3dsimed will introduce a 0.000009 pitch (it is an approximate value as 3dsimed only show that many decimal places), this may seem very little, but is enough to cause mismatch/gap (if it is a road surface)."

Is this similar to what happens in Sandbox...? Who knows. I wish you luck in your endeavor.

 

[ai_line_mod]

I resolved the issue. To get the sandbox track to play nicely with the LPs which came with the conversion, you have to right click each section and click Unlock All Geometry. Once that is done, right click one of the sections and choose Rebuild Track. This resizes the track to 1005.02 meters. When you save, select Yes to center the track. See screenshot for the menu where these options are found.