Willow Springs Help

bungi43 · Apr 11, 2023

Hope to get some quick help: Big fan of everything John Norton does. I know a lot of you download his tracks. Love Willow Springs. Running the NCS22. I've read the readme, tried adjusting a lot of settings visually (cars ahead/behind, lowering settings to low, etc), still get infrequent crashing.
Rig is solid, have the 4GB patch and all that. So far this is the only track I've come across with the issues. I'm sure it's not the track as much as it is me finding the right settings. Anyone else have this issue and make some changes that work? I love the track.
12600K
RTX 3070
32 GB ram
I'm guessing I'm just missing something. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Highbank · Apr 11, 2023

Works fine for me

bungi43 · Apr 11, 2023

All of his other tracks work just fine. So I know I've got something in the settings that probably needs updated.

All of my cars are compressed. All pit crews compressed. I went in and turned off a bunch. I ran one race no problem. Another one crashed about 5 laps in (just a short race). Can't seem to find consistency.

J.R. Franklin · Apr 11, 2023

What car set are you using? Or does it crash no matter what car set you use?

bungi43 · Apr 11, 2023

J.R. Franklin said:
What car set are you using? Or does it crash no matter what car set you use?

Right now I've only tried it with the NCS22. He mentioned in his notes that the MENCS19 might have some issues and I tried those suggestions.

Just as a note: I downloaded his Bahrain Course...no issues at all. I'll keep playing with it and see if I can find a setting for the NCS22 with no issues. My rig should be fine, and I have all the appropriate NR2003 pieces (4GB, DLL piece, etc).

Thanks!

J.R. Franklin · Apr 11, 2023

bungi43 said:
Right now I've only tried it with the NCS22. He mentioned in his notes that the MENCS19 might have some issues and I tried those suggestions.

Just as a note: I downloaded his Bahrain Course...no issues at all. I'll keep playing with it and see if I can find a setting for the NCS22 with no issues. My rig should be fine, and I have all the appropriate NR2003 pieces (4GB, DLL piece, etc).

Thanks!

Have you tried the track with any other car sets?

J.R. Franklin · Apr 12, 2023

If you're running FCR NCS22v1 mod, make sure that you have all the boxes under Shadows On Cars in the Options menu unchecked. If those boxes are checked it will cause severe lagging and possibly crashing.

Mystical · Jul 28, 2023

Hey guys I know this thread is a few months old but I found the root cause for the crashing. I was finding that mods that are high detail, for example the 22' cup mod or my ICR mod (mods that are usually 6-7k poly count in LOD1/LOD2) crashes on this track around turn 4

The trackside object 3dos are triple the size they should be, assuming they were made in the 3dsimed3 method which unfortunately decimates a model into multiple pieces thus doubling or tripling the vert count. The main culprit are the grass 3dos. There are so many and they are anywhere from 100-500+ verts each. As they always render around the track its at least 30-40k verts that shouldn't be rendered when the player never sees them from far away (but the game is still calculating those verts even when you don't see it visually).

If @JNorton (WKC) gives me permission I can share the updated 3dos (or I can give him the updated grass 3dos I made so he can add them to his track for an update). I reduced the vert counts then recompiled them via psg scripting and also gave them proper LODs. I ran several laps around the track and no longer crash + get much better fps performance.

Code I wrote when compiling them:

Code:

##########################################################

#   3DO CODE COMPILE

##########################################################


#load empty mesh

maEmpty:  EMPTY_MESH

off_pop:  EMPTY_MESH


#load scene with 3D Models

model:    MESH_GROUP "grass.pas"



#######################################

#   Load Models

#######################################


grass1_L1:         MESH model  grass0_L1

grass1_L5:         MESH model  grass0_L1


grass1a_L1:         MESH model  grass1_L1

grass1a_L5:         MESH model  grass1_L1


grass1b_L1:         MESH model  grass2_L1

grass1b_L5:         MESH model  grass2_L1


grass1c_L1:         MESH model  grass3_L1

grass1c_L5:         MESH model  grass3_L1


grass1d_L1:         MESH model  grass4_L1

grass1d_L5:         MESH model  grass4_L1


grass1e_L1:         MESH model  grass5_L1

grass1e_L5:         MESH model  grass5_L1


grass1f_L1:         MESH model  grass6_L1

grass1f_L5:         MESH model  grass6_L1


grass1g_L1:         MESH model  grass7_L1

grass1g_L5:         MESH model  grass7_L1




#######################################

#   LODS

#######################################



grass_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1_L1,

2.0        grass1_L1,

100.0     grass1_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )



grass_a_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1a_L1,

2.0        grass1a_L1,

100.0     grass1a_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )

        

grass_b_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1b_L1,

2.0        grass1b_L1,

100.0     grass1b_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )

        

grass_c_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1c_L1,

2.0        grass1c_L1,

100.0     grass1c_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )

        

        

grass_d_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1d_L1,

2.0        grass1d_L1,

100.0     grass1d_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )       

        

        

        

grass_e_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1e_L1,

2.0        grass1e_L1,

100.0     grass1e_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )       

        

        

grass_f_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1f_L1,

2.0        grass1f_L1,

100.0     grass1f_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )       

        

        

grass_g_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1g_L1,

2.0        grass1g_L1,

100.0     grass1g_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )       

        

        

        

    


#######################################

#   day to night switch

#######################################


#night_group: GROUP (night_3do_L1, night_3do_L5, night_3do_L9)



#Day to Night states: 0 = Day, 1 = Night


#night_pole: STATE_SWITCH VAR Day_Night (0 pole_LOD, 1 pole_LOD_night, 2)



#self_lighting: SELFLIGHTING AMBIENT(1, 1, 1)   night_3do_switch




#######################################

#   Final Grouping

#######################################


#Model_Export: GROUP (night_switch_L1)



#######################################

#   Weekend state switches

#######################################


#weekend states: 0 = testing, 1 = warmup/practice, 2 = Race


#crowd_weekend:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Weekend (0 night_test, 1 night_qual, 2 night_race, 3)



#######################################

#   population switch

#######################################

#population states: 0 = TSO off, 1 = TSO on


pop_switch_output0:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output1:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_a_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output2:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_b_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output3:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_c_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output4:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_d_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output5:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_e_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output6:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_f_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output7:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_g_LOD, 3)




#######################################

#   MASTER OUTPUT

#######################################


OUTPUT pop_switch_output0 "gras_long_01.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output1 "gras_long_02.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output2 "gras_long_02a.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output3 "gras_long_03.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output4 "gras_long_04.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output5 "gras_long_04a.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output6 "gras_long_05.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output7 "gras_short_01.3do"

You can see I gave the grass LOD level 5 around 100 meters so they become less high poly, then around 200 meters make them no longer render. When racing you don't even see a difference but also no more crashes

JNorton (WKC) · Aug 15, 2023

Mystical said:

Hey guys I know this thread is a few months old but I found the root cause for the crashing. I was finding that mods that are high detail, for example the 22' cup mod or my ICR mod (mods that are usually 6-7k poly count in LOD1/LOD2) crashes on this track around turn 4

The trackside object 3dos are triple the size they should be, assuming they were made in the 3dsimed3 method which unfortunately decimates a model into multiple pieces thus doubling or tripling the vert count. The main culprit are the grass 3dos. There are so many and they are anywhere from 100-500+ verts each. As they always render around the track its at least 30-40k verts that shouldn't be rendered when the player never sees them from far away (but the game is still calculating those verts even when you don't see it visually).

If @JNorton (WKC) gives me permission I can share the updated 3dos (or I can give him the updated grass 3dos I made so he can add them to his track for an update). I reduced the vert counts then recompiled them via psg scripting and also gave them proper LODs. I ran several laps around the track and no longer crash + get much better fps performance.

Code I wrote when compiling them:

Code:

##########################################################

#   3DO CODE COMPILE

##########################################################


#load empty mesh

maEmpty:  EMPTY_MESH

off_pop:  EMPTY_MESH


#load scene with 3D Models

model:    MESH_GROUP "grass.pas"



#######################################

#   Load Models

#######################################


grass1_L1:         MESH model  grass0_L1

grass1_L5:         MESH model  grass0_L1


grass1a_L1:         MESH model  grass1_L1

grass1a_L5:         MESH model  grass1_L1


grass1b_L1:         MESH model  grass2_L1

grass1b_L5:         MESH model  grass2_L1


grass1c_L1:         MESH model  grass3_L1

grass1c_L5:         MESH model  grass3_L1


grass1d_L1:         MESH model  grass4_L1

grass1d_L5:         MESH model  grass4_L1


grass1e_L1:         MESH model  grass5_L1

grass1e_L5:         MESH model  grass5_L1


grass1f_L1:         MESH model  grass6_L1

grass1f_L5:         MESH model  grass6_L1


grass1g_L1:         MESH model  grass7_L1

grass1g_L5:         MESH model  grass7_L1




#######################################

#   LODS

#######################################



grass_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1_L1,

2.0        grass1_L1,

100.0     grass1_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )



grass_a_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1a_L1,

2.0        grass1a_L1,

100.0     grass1a_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )

       

grass_b_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1b_L1,

2.0        grass1b_L1,

100.0     grass1b_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )

       

grass_c_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1c_L1,

2.0        grass1c_L1,

100.0     grass1c_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )

       

       

grass_d_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1d_L1,

2.0        grass1d_L1,

100.0     grass1d_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )      

       

       

       

grass_e_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1e_L1,

2.0        grass1e_L1,

100.0     grass1e_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )      

       

       

grass_f_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1f_L1,

2.0        grass1f_L1,

100.0     grass1f_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )      

       

       

grass_g_LOD:  STATIC_LOD (    0         grass1g_L1,

2.0        grass1g_L1,

100.0     grass1g_L5,

200.0    maEmpty

          )      

       

       

       

   


#######################################

#   day to night switch

#######################################


#night_group: GROUP (night_3do_L1, night_3do_L5, night_3do_L9)



#Day to Night states: 0 = Day, 1 = Night


#night_pole: STATE_SWITCH VAR Day_Night (0 pole_LOD, 1 pole_LOD_night, 2)



#self_lighting: SELFLIGHTING AMBIENT(1, 1, 1)   night_3do_switch




#######################################

#   Final Grouping

#######################################


#Model_Export: GROUP (night_switch_L1)



#######################################

#   Weekend state switches

#######################################


#weekend states: 0 = testing, 1 = warmup/practice, 2 = Race


#crowd_weekend:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Weekend (0 night_test, 1 night_qual, 2 night_race, 3)



#######################################

#   population switch

#######################################

#population states: 0 = TSO off, 1 = TSO on


pop_switch_output0:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output1:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_a_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output2:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_b_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output3:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_c_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output4:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_d_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output5:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_e_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output6:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_f_LOD, 3)

pop_switch_output7:  STATE_SWITCH  VAR Population  (0 off_pop, 1 grass_g_LOD, 3)




#######################################

#   MASTER OUTPUT

#######################################


OUTPUT pop_switch_output0 "gras_long_01.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output1 "gras_long_02.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output2 "gras_long_02a.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output3 "gras_long_03.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output4 "gras_long_04.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output5 "gras_long_04a.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output6 "gras_long_05.3do"

OUTPUT pop_switch_output7 "gras_short_01.3do"

You can see I gave the grass LOD level 5 around 100 meters so they become less high poly, then around 200 meters make them no longer render. When racing you don't even see a difference but also no more crashes

Feel free to fix it....

Thugsrook · Aug 15, 2023

holy cow that grass is huge!

Thugsrook · Aug 15, 2023

the quick and dirty fix...

this removes the grass ~ unpack into your Willow Springs WKC folder.

Mystical · Aug 15, 2023

Thanks @JNorton (WKC) for allowing permission.

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/1bxio2gvt4i71yj/Willow_Springs_WKC_%2528grass_3dos%2529.7z/file

Simply copy these 3dos into the track folder. They will override the ones in the dat file. You won't notice any difference to the original vision of the track. Same bushes just with lods and vert count reduction to help with more performance demanding mods.

Thugsrook · Aug 15, 2023

^ nice work!

some benchmarks...
original grass = 84fps
mystical grass = 93fps
no grass = 101fps

Mystical · Aug 15, 2023

Thugsrook said:
^ nice work!

some benchmarks...
original grass = 84fps
mystical grass = 93fps
no grass = 101fps

Keep in mind the viewing angle will greatly impact the fps as well (more fps or less fps) For the grass coming around turn 4/5 where the whole track infield is in view is where the performance took a massive dip.

JNorton (WKC) · Aug 16, 2023

Mystical said:
Thanks @JNorton (WKC) for allowing permission.

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/1bxio2gvt4i71yj/Willow_Springs_WKC_%2528grass_3dos%2529.7z/file

Simply copy these 3dos into the track folder. They will override the ones in the dat file. You won't notice any difference to the original vision of the track. Same bushes just with lods and vert count reduction to help with more performance demanding mods.

I downloaded these even though I have never had this track crash on me.,.. I wish everyone would point out issues like this..

Highbank · Aug 16, 2023

Never crashed on me but I've never run the NexGen or newest mods on it

bungi43 · Aug 17, 2023

I've only had it crash on the NCS22. Didn't crash on MENCS 19. I will update this and report back. Thanks to everyone!

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