Track Building, Performance, Quality and How to Avoid Game Crashes Discussion

[CpPolar268]

I would like to start this discussion about best practices for NR2003 track builders. Though there are some general guidelines you can find here and there on forums and websites to build tracks, I'm interested in learning the "forgotten" little tidbits track builders have learned over the process of building tracks which help improve the quality and performance of the tracks and avoid game crashing issues.

Additionally, I'm curious to see if there is a reason certain tracks tend to cause more crashes than other versions of the same track. For example, BBMC tracks (Phoenix, Chicagoland, Charlotte Roval, etc) are known to cause game crashes and they still persist even when using the lower performance track texture pack. What are they caused by? Are they caused by overlapping X-sections? Are they caused by .mip textures which are too big for the game to handle? Why do these tend to crash more than other versions of the same tracks?


All this boils down to these main questions which inspired me to start this thread:
- What are the "unwritten rules"/guidelines for track builders to follow to avoid their track from crashing the game?
- What are the best practices for each sector of track building?
- How do you improve performance while keeping quality?


For example, one of the "unwritten rules" that I learned while building my first track is to not overlap x-sections from different segments like this:

Even though this worked inside the game, it caused the walls within the overlapping segments to be visible but you couldn't collide with them.

Some questions I had in mind to begin the discussion are:
Geometry Editing View
- How many segments of track can you have before it starts having issues?
- How many segments of track which are 1m long can you have together before having issues?
- Does overlapping X Sections across different segments cause issues?
- How does having sharp edges/essentially nonexistent length on the leftmost or rightmost X-section of the track segment cause issues?
- What are the recommended dimensions of a .mip file to texture the track that balance both performance and quality?
- Do all segments of track have to be connected or can you have a part disconnected and not interfere with the rest of the track?
- Do you need to texture all the way to the edges of the left and right X-sections of a segment or is it better to leave a gap between the left/rightmost X section and the left/rightmost F section?

Trackside Objects (TSOs)
- How many TSOs can a track have before it starts having performance issues?
- How many polygons/vertices can a TSO have before causing issues?
- What is the optimal dimension size for TSO textures?
- Does the size of the TSO matter in terms of performance?

Track Surface Decals
- How many decals can you have before having issues?
- What are the recommended dimensions of a .mip file that balance both performance and quality?

Other/General
- Is there anything in track.ini or anything else that can affect the game performance both positively or negatively?
- What causes some tracks to tend to crash more than other tracks?
- How can existing tracks with constant crashing issues be fixed? What would you look at first/second/etc to fix the issues?
- Are there any tools out there that can help identify track problems other than testing them ingame?


I'll keep a list of "unwritten rules" down here updated as the discussion progresses:

Geometry Editing View
- Don't overlap segments of tracks. It will cause walls to be visible but not collidable
- All segments should be connected to one another

Trackside Objects (TSOs)
- ...

Track Surface Decals
- ...

General/Other
- ...

 

[JNorton (WKC)]

I would like to start this discussion about best practices for NR2003 track builders. Though there are some general guidelines you can find here and there on forums and websites to build tracks, I'm interested in learning the "forgotten" little tidbits track builders have learned over the process of building tracks which help improve the quality and performance of the tracks and avoid game crashing issues.

Additionally, I'm curious to see if there is a reason certain tracks tend to cause more crashes than other versions of the same track. For example, BBMC tracks (Phoenix, Chicagoland, Charlotte Roval, etc) are known to cause game crashes and they still persist even when using the lower performance track texture pack. What are they caused by? Are they caused by overlapping X-sections? Are they caused by .mip textures which are too big for the game to handle? Why do these tend to crash more than other versions of the same tracks?


All this boils down to these main questions which inspired me to start this thread:
- What are the "unwritten rules"/guidelines for track builders to follow to avoid their track from crashing the game?
- What are the best practices for each sector of track building?
- How do you improve performance while keeping quality?


For example, one of the "unwritten rules" that I learned while building my first track is to not overlap x-sections from different segments like this:
View attachment 97777
Even though this worked inside the game, it caused the walls within the overlapping segments to be visible but you couldn't collide with them.

Some questions I had in mind to begin the discussion are:
Geometry Editing View
- How many segments of track can you have before it starts having issues?
- How many segments of track which are 1m long can you have together before having issues?
- Does overlapping X Sections across different segments cause issues?
- How does having sharp edges/essentially nonexistent length on the leftmost or rightmost X-section of the track segment cause issues?
- What are the rTrack.iniecommended dimensions of a .mip file to texture the track that balance both performance and quality?
- Do all segments of track have to be connected or can you have a part disconnected and not interfere with the rest of the track?
- Do you need to texture all the way to the edges of the left and right X-sections of a segment or is it better to leave a gap between the left/rightmost X section and the left/rightmost F section?

Trackside Objects (TSOs)
- How many TSOs can a track have before it starts having performance issues?
- How many polygons/vertices can a TSO have before causing issues?
- What is the optimal dimension size for TSO textures?
- Does the size of the TSO matter in terms of performance?

Track Surface Decals
- How many decals can you have before having issues?
- What are the recommended dimensions of a .mip file that balance both performance and quality?

Other/General
- Is there anything in track.ini or anything else that can affect the game performance both positively or negatively?
- What causes some tracks to tend to crash more than other tracks?
- How can existing tracks with constant crashing issues be fixed? What would you look at first/second/etc to fix the issues?
- Are there any tools out there that can help identify track problems other than testing them ingame?


I'll keep a list of "unwritten rules" down here updated as the discussion progresses:

Geometry Editing View
- Don't overlap segments of tracks. It will cause walls to be visible but not collidable

Trackside Objects (TSOs)
- ...

Track Surface Decals
- ...

General/Other
- ...

I'm shocked that track even loaded.. Sections should be connected not overlapping.

How many sections? Not sure if that's even known. There is a 52 mile long track out there.

TSO Limit? That would depend on the computer that the player is using. The more you add = more of a frame rate hot you players with older computers. ( IE: less memory, less video ram, lower end CPU )

Constant track crashing can be caused by many things. Other programs running in the background while you're trying to race, A bad 3do on a track (rare), setting to many cars ahead/behind in the options. This seems to happen more with the newer cup (MENCS) gns mods. Not sure if it happens with the latest indycar mod.. Never used 43 cars with that one.
Fixing a bad track depends on what is wring with it. First I would look at the mod and how many cars are set to be seen ahead/behind in the options. If the doesn't fix it then it may be time to load the track in Sandbox and see if there are any issues there. Check the track.ini to see if pit entrance/exit points are correct and if the pit stalls were created correctly. Also check the track.ini to see if max_starters = the number of pit stalls.

Track.ini game performance? The track.ini generally controls the AI (IE: grip, speed, pitting, tire heat... ) So in a way it can but it's the last thing I would look at.

How many track sections of 1 meter can you have? I don't think anyone has tried that and why would they?

Dimensions of a .mip file can be whatever you want as long as they are 16x, 32x, 64x. 128x, 256x, 512x, 1024x. 2048 x etc etc etc... Just remember the bigger the mip = more memory it's going to use. I tend to keep most everything I do at 512x, or 1024x. I have used 2048x for wall graphic though. A larger size mip = higher graphic resolutions. Unless you used a complete low res garbage image for your mip.

I always pull my F material sections to the most inner/outer X sections.

 

[Rufio2031]

BBMC tracks are unstable mainly from overloading the engine. HD textures are basically the biggest concern. With that said, the MENCS19 mod is the biggest factor in FPS, which is inline with a lot of @JNorton (WKC) mentioned about visible cars. The BBMC versions are just adding more onto the already large cake in terms of texture memory and tri's to render. In our experiences, the tracks run like butter for less intensive car mods.

There's a small section at the bottom here about track creating that we've found over the last couple years.
BBMC Performance Guide

Sandbox will silently limit your TSO and TSD additions. It will just stop loading them and never tell you about it. You also need to limit the project folder itself. If you have too many files (.3do, .mip's) Sandbox won't load them all and again can cause missing items in your track.

Does the size of the TSO matter in terms of performance?
- No, but amount of triangles does.

 

[thunderbolt]

I am not a track builder, but I can say (after the last 26 years of Nascar Racing) some tracks just do not play well with some mods.
As Rufio stated. It is not so much the mod or the track, but rather the combination causing issues.
I have a high end machine and I also have issues from time to time. The upside is, with the wide variety of tracks / mods available, it is easily resolved using
alternate versions to make a season.
As example, I am using the original Papyrus Bristol for my season, as I find the AI are too erratic in other versions causing far too many wrecks.
But then again, I'm more interested in how the race runs and AI performs than I am about the latest and greatest track logos etc.

 

[SirSpoony]

I would like to start this discussion about best practices for NR2003 track builders. Though there are some general guidelines you can find here and there on forums and websites to build tracks, I'm interested in learning the "forgotten" little tidbits track builders have learned over the process of building tracks which help improve the quality and performance of the tracks and avoid game crashing issues.

Additionally, I'm curious to see if there is a reason certain tracks tend to cause more crashes than other versions of the same track. For example, BBMC tracks (Phoenix, Chicagoland, Charlotte Roval, etc) are known to cause game crashes and they still persist even when using the lower performance track texture pack. What are they caused by? Are they caused by overlapping X-sections? Are they caused by .mip textures which are too big for the game to handle? Why do these tend to crash more than other versions of the same tracks?


All this boils down to these main questions which inspired me to start this thread:
- What are the "unwritten rules"/guidelines for track builders to follow to avoid their track from crashing the game?
- What are the best practices for each sector of track building?
- How do you improve performance while keeping quality?


For example, one of the "unwritten rules" that I learned while building my first track is to not overlap x-sections from different segments like this:
View attachment 97777
Even though this worked inside the game, it caused the walls within the overlapping segments to be visible but you couldn't collide with them.

Some questions I had in mind to begin the discussion are:
Geometry Editing View
- How many segments of track can you have before it starts having issues?
- How many segments of track which are 1m long can you have together before having issues?
- Does overlapping X Sections across different segments cause issues?
- How does having sharp edges/essentially nonexistent length on the leftmost or rightmost X-section of the track segment cause issues?
- What are the recommended dimensions of a .mip file to texture the track that balance both performance and quality?
- Do all segments of track have to be connected or can you have a part disconnected and not interfere with the rest of the track?
- Do you need to texture all the way to the edges of the left and right X-sections of a segment or is it better to leave a gap between the left/rightmost X section and the left/rightmost F section?

Trackside Objects (TSOs)
- How many TSOs can a track have before it starts having performance issues?
- How many polygons/vertices can a TSO have before causing issues?
- What is the optimal dimension size for TSO textures?
- Does the size of the TSO matter in terms of performance?

Track Surface Decals
- How many decals can you have before having issues?
- What are the recommended dimensions of a .mip file that balance both performance and quality?

Other/General
- Is there anything in track.ini or anything else that can affect the game performance both positively or negatively?
- What causes some tracks to tend to crash more than other tracks?
- How can existing tracks with constant crashing issues be fixed? What would you look at first/second/etc to fix the issues?
- Are there any tools out there that can help identify track problems other than testing them ingame?


I'll keep a list of "unwritten rules" down here updated as the discussion progresses:

Geometry Editing View
- Don't overlap segments of tracks. It will cause walls to be visible but not collidable
- All segments should be connected to one another

Trackside Objects (TSOs)
- ...

Track Surface Decals
- ...

General/Other
- ...

JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS THAT TRACK