Nascar Safety Issues - A thread

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Andle

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i’m not an expert so take my view with a grain of salt. The rear of the car is way too stiff so all the energy is sent to the driver rather than crumpling the rear. the drivers have complained about hard hits

here is a list put together by nacarman

1). In March 2020, William Byron had a right-rear impact testing at Fontana. Chris Rice: "We've heard through the grapevine, some concerns about William's crash and the force that he took in that wreck."

2). After a last lap crash at Atlanta, Bubba Wallace called the hit the hardest of his career
Bubba Wallace: "That was the hardest hit I've had. I think that was harder than Pocono."

3. After a crash at Talladega, Bubba Wallace implied on team radio that his crash was even harder than the one he suffered at Atlanta
Bubba Wallace: "Here's a new P1... I don't know if I can take many more f*** hits like that."

4). Christopher Bell had crashes in the All Star race and testing at Pocono
C-Bell: "Both of them from the outside looking in does not look like a hard impact, But it absolutely felt way harder than any other car that I’ve backed into the fence before in NASCAR.”

5). Joey Logano crashed near the finish of the Coke 600. He called it the hardest crash of his career
Joey Logano: “I’ve never hit harder in my life. That was horrible, and it hurt really bad... These cars, they hit harder than ever. They hit really, really hard. They’re super solid. It hurts.”

6). During qualifying at Pocono, Kurt Busch crashed with the right-rear at an impact over 25Gs and suffered a concussion. It was said his injuries were the culmination of several hard hits at Atlanta, Darlington, Atlanta, and finally Pocono.

7).Kevin Harvick: "Every time I hit something, it's a lot harsher than any hit I've took in any of the other cars. The only thing I can compare it to is hitting a concrete wall, compared to what it used to be."

8). Ty Gibbs Watkins Glen: "I felt like it was a pretty hard hit for as soft as it was. So hopefully we can figure out how to make these things softer and preserve the lives of the drivers. I feel like that's the most important thing. I feel like we're seeing it from everybody."

9). Denny Hamlin's comments after his August Daytona crash: "That was certainly the first real big one I've had in this car. Everything they've been telling us, all the other drivers, it's true. It's legit."

10). Alex Bowman called his crash at Texas "the hardest I've crashed anything in my entire life." He finished the race but concussion symptoms will keep him from racing at Talladega

there is more too
 

Rollo75

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No.
I would very much like to know what the actual verifiable data is for all of this.

1 - Have we actually seen worse accidents in 2022?
2 - Have we actually seen more tyres blow?
3 - Can the impacts be measured with accelerometers?

I would really like to know with a proper data set what is actually going on, rather than subjective opinions.
 
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Highbank

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18 years of sim racing many, many serious wall crushing accidents, NO CONCUSSION! Maybe these guys need to start zooming the races from home...

OF course, I would note that it has often been said that racing is not safe by it's very nature...
 
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Andle

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I would very much like to know what the actual verifiable data is for all of this.

1 - Have we actually seen worse accidents in 2022?
2 - Have we actually seen more tyres blow?
3 - Can the impacts be measured with accelerometers?

I would really like to know with a proper data set what is actually going on, rather than subjective opinions.
like I said, i am no expert, your points are all valid. I’ll address them to the best of my ability

1 - Have we seen worse accidents in 2022?
Actually yes and no: The accidents are not really any different in terms of speed or style. These types of accidents have been happening in nascar for decades; however, with the new car the energy seems to be dissipated less through the car and more energy seems to get sent to the driver. The cars crumple less when hitting the wall which is great for keeping the car on the track, but not as good for the driver.

2 - Have we seen more tire failures in 2022?
While I don’t think this directly relates to safety, I do think the tires need to be changed. To your original question, I’m not sure if we have seen more, It sure feels like it, but feels is not proof. I have not done any research on this so I can’t give any statistics. Contrary to popular opinion, i don’t think the low profile tire is the issue, I think that since goodyear does not have experience making these type of tires, they need a little grace. I think that after a few years the tire will race very similar to the old one.

3 - can the impacts be measured with accelerometers?
If you go to my answer in question 1 you will see that I believe that the impacts are not happening at higher speeds, but the car dissipates less energy and transfers more to the driver. this the impact of the car as a whole won’t read any differently. I am not qualified to know if there would be any difference between measuring the impact of the car vs the driver but i would assume there would be one. Kurt Busch’s qualifying crash was 25gs, I don’t know if that is high because I have not looked into the data.


From what I can tell @Rollo75 you are a man of facts and hard data, I am too (I want to go into data analytics as a career path). all of my points have no data, which I think hurts my argument a lot. I would love to go on a data hunt right now, but I don’t have the time at college. Your points are all valid and I agree, I would love to see the data on this. I have a (unfortunately not data driven) question for you

1 - Do the voices of nascar drivers mean nascar should change anything?
2 - Does the volume of the voices of nascar drivers mean nascar should change anything.

Here is my answer, I would love to hear yours

1: No, there are always going to be people who criticize change, Kyle Busch hated the COT, but nascar didn’t change anything… just because one person says something does not mean change needs to happen

2: yes, to me, the multitude of drivers calling for change is indicative of a bigger issue. Of the 36 full time drivers, I have found 10 that have complained that this car hits harder than any other car they’ve driven and that’s just off the top of my head. That is almost 30% (28% is the number) of the field. NASCAR veterans kevin harvick Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin have been very outspoken on the issues with this car and they’ve been in the sport the longest.

How can nascar not change anything when almost 1/3rd of their drivers have major concerns about the car?
 
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Rollo75

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No.
1 - Do the voices of nascar drivers mean nascar should change anything?
2 - Does the volume of the voices of nascar drivers mean nascar should change anything.

1 - Absolutely. This is a workplace health and safety issue.

2 - Absolutely. This is a workplace health and safety issue.

What I do not know and what might be difficult to quantify since probably no previous data exists, is whether or not the accidents and impacts actually are worse or if the new car has given drivers' effective permission to speak up.
What I fear is that incidents in the past might have been covered in a cloak of secrecy. What might actually be happening is that drivers are surviving at far higher rates and are able to report on what's happening; instead of being sent to the in-field care centre and those reports never being made public and/or never being able to be made in the first place.
 

Bitbreaker

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2 - Have we seen more tire failures in 2022?
While I don’t think this directly relates to safety, I do think the tires need to be changed. To your original question, I’m not sure if we have seen more, It sure feels like it, but feels is not proof. I have not done any research on this so I can’t give any statistics. Contrary to popular opinion, i don’t think the low profile tire is the issue, I think that since goodyear does not have experience making these type of tires, they need a little grace. I think that after a few years the tire will race very similar to the old one.
I were wondering which fault is it, that there are so many accidents due to tire failures.

Goodyear for doing a bad job?
Manufactors for pushing the 18" wheel so there is no space for inner liners?
Teams for not holding on goodyears recommendions?

I mean 20 cars and more getting through the hole race without a tire issue, why can't the other teams can it too?
 

Cola83

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I don't think NASCAR did a very good job with the Next Gen Car... The car is terrible, can pass without getting a run, racing is terrible, car is not safe... Ok I give, can say enough bad things about car and tires.... :(
 

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