Old Subject - Clean Air

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Cola83

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I know I have said this a few times on this site, but here it goes again. The 2 Cup Races at Pocono had lots of passing in the pack. But in 2 total races, Except for restarts, there was NOT 1 green flag pass for the lead - Not one. Don't know how NASCAR is going to do it, but they need to find a way for more passes for the lead after a restart.

I thought the races were boring, only thing that made them half way interesting was the different pit strategies used. Sorry for another rant, just not the Pocono races I use to remember. I bet Indy will be the same - ZERO passes for the lead. Thanks
 

Rollo75

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No.
This is an intractable physics problem.

Downforce and turn in works when you have denser air on a surface but as soon as you get into the rooster tail of lower pressure disturbed air, that downforce lessens.

F1 solved the problem with DRS; which is not applicable here.
Most touring car series don't have this unique problem because most overtakes are done under brakes.
 

Cola83

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Well I said it was going to happen and it did.... NOT 1 green flag pass for the lead, except on restarts. What a Boring race... enjoyed Xfinity race much more
 
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Rollo75

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No.
I bothered to look at the height at which a road going VE/VF Commodore (Pontiac G8 is 6G2E and Chevy SS is 6G3F) and the splitter height is not quite 9 inches.
Race cars are lowered; so the ground effect of a low pressure system underneath the car is going to be far greater than if a standard road car went around a circuit.

Also, getting back to Cola83's original remark re: Kentucky - apart from passes within three laps of a restart, there were none for the lead at all. I suspect that the mile and a half oval itself is at fault as well because 24/30 seconds of the lap, the car is turning. If for 80% of the lap, the car is front end aero dependent, that's going to have a major effect on how races play out.
 
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Rollo75

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No.
I rewatched the 1987 Winston Million.

Segment 1 - Bill Elliot Leads every lap
Segment 2 - Bill Elliot Leads every lap

Bodine attempted to pass in front of Elliot, but both cars tangled with Bodine spinning while Earnhardt took over the lead before the caution came out. Elliot tags Earnhardt in the rear quarter and Earnhardt slides into the infield in a moment that becomes know as "the pass in the grass". Elliot pits with a cut tyre. Earnhardt wins the race.

Elliot's car is so much faster than everyone else's because the 1987 Thunderbird is even more of a bespoke bit of kit than the 1986 cars and its front splitter hugs the racetrack.
Compare Elliot's car with the 1986 Monte Carlos and it becomes really apparent.

i105468.jpg

The first 2/3rds of the race are boring; which leads me to believe that the culprit really is the front splitters.
Bobby Allison's accident which leads to the use of restrictor plates also happens in 1987; which I think was caused by a sudden change in pressure gradients under the car - see comments above.

Yeah... raise the front splitter about 6 inches.
 

M_Nesevitch

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Oh yea, the older races were pretty bad too. Not because of the package, but because some guys were just that much better at cheating it then others.. The "twisted sister" years were the best for "racing" imo.. The cars looked kinda goofy but they weren't totally areo dependent or horse power restricted. They had rules that were "harder" to break and could actually race side by side. Clean air wasn't the end all be all..
 
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