Numbers - The Judgement Thread

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Rollo75

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No.
Stewart-Haas - 4, 14, 41 (10) - that's sensible
Penske - 2, 12, 22 - that's sensible
Joe Gibbs - 18, 19, 20 (11) - that's sensible
JTG Daugherty - 37, 47 - that's sensible

Chip Ganassi - 1, 42... say what now? Kurt, your brother is the champion; you're fooling no-one.
Hendrick - 9, 24, 48, 88 - oh my goodness. You've got one number which has been taken because his dad ran it. Two numbers which are essentially legacy numbers where the previous drivers have retired. One which is doubled.

Roush Fenway - 6, 17... Dear oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.


Dear Roush Fenway,
What the flippin' 'eck is going on here?
You had 6 and 16 (that's sensible) and 06 and 26 at various times (which is sensible), then ran 17 to go with 16 (that's sensible) but didn't bother to correct things after Greg Biffle left.
Sort it out. 5 and 7 are empty. 16 is empty.
Love,
Rollo.
 
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mtblillie

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CGR - 1, 42
42 was the original number used by SABCO. When Kenny Irwin, Jr was killed driving the 42 in 2000, the car was changed to the 01. The car remained 01 in 2001 when Chip Ganassi took over the operation, but was eventually changed to 41, and then back to 42.
1 was the original number of DEI. The number stayed with DEI throughout the years of the 01, 8, 15, etc. Eventually, DEI was bought out by Chip Ganassi and the number has stayed with the team as a legacy number (like the 42) ever since. Basically it is that there is history there.

Roush racing is similar. The 6 was the original number of Roush that started with Mark Martin in the late 80s. The 17 wasn't the next number (it may have been 99 or another shorter lived number), but it was a number that Matt Kenseth had used previously and wanted to carry with him to Roush. I'm not sure why they use 17 over other numbers, maybe because it won a championship? Or maybe it lasted the longest (other than the 6). Either way, again, there is legacy there.

As for Hendrick, well same deal. Legacy. Hendrick has used several numbers in cup, the oldest being the 5, but also 17, 18, 24, 25, 34, 46, 48, 51, and 88. The 5 was the original, and that was in opinion the saddest to see go. But as you say, the 24 is a legacy number, due to it being a multiple championship team. The 48 will be also when Jimmy retires. The 9 of course is only 9 because of the Elliott name, and the 88 because of Junior.

Long story short, the number choice is based more on legacy than in a particular order.

To add to your original point though, RCR's original number is of coarse 3, and have used 27, 29, 30, 31, and 33. The 07 was also used, but that was because of sponsorship.
 
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Jeremy Murray

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CGR - 1, 42
42 was the original number used by SABCO. When Kenny Irwin, Jr was killed driving the 42 in 2000, the car was changed to the 01. The car remained 01 in 2001 when Chip Ganassi took over the operation, but was eventually changed to 41, and then back to 42.
1 was the original number of DEI. The number stayed with DEI throughout the years of the 01, 8, 15, etc. Eventually, DEI was bought out by Chip Ganassi and the number has stayed with the team as a legacy number (like the 42) ever since. Basically it is that there is history there.

Roush racing is similar. The 6 was the original number of Roush that started with Mark Martin in the late 80s. The 17 wasn't the next number (it may have been 99 or another shorter lived number), but it was a number that Matt Kenseth had used previously and wanted to carry with him to Roush. I'm not sure why they use 17 over other numbers, maybe because it won a championship? Or maybe it lasted the longest (other than the 6). Either way, again, there is legacy there.

As for Hendrick, well same deal. Legacy. Hendrick has used several numbers in cup, the oldest being the 5, but also 17, 18, 24, 25, 34, 46, 48, 51, and 88. The 5 was the original, and that was in opinion the saddest to see go. But as you say, the 24 is a legacy number, due to it being a multiple championship team. The 48 will be also when Jimmy retires. The 9 of course is only 9 because of the Elliott name, and the 88 because of Junior.

Long story short, the number choice is based more on legacy than in a particular order.

To add to your original point though, RCR's original number is of coarse 3, and have used 27, 29, 30, 31, and 33. The 07 was also used, but that was because of sponsorship.

With CGR, the 42 isn't the old 41 car. You're right about everything except that they added the 42 when McMurray came on, that at that time they were running the 40 and 41 cars. When they merged with DEI, the 41 team was shut down and the Target sponsorship moved to the 42.

Roush was 6, then 16, 99, 97, 26, 17. They bought the 97 from Greg Pollex in 97 in 1997. The 26 was added in 1998 with Johnny Benson driving but lasted only a couple of years before they shut it down. Later on when Kurt Busch left the 97, they renumbered it to 26 with McMurray driving. The 06 was always a part time ride just to give a driver some starts before their rookie season.

Hendrick was 5, then 25 (35 when Benny Parsons would sub for Tim Richmond), 17, 18, 24, 48, 88, 9. The 46 and 51 numbers were only for entries they fielded for footage for Days of Thunder. Jeff Gordon's number was originally going to be 46 but due to some licensing deals Paramount Pictures had due to the movie, he went with 24 instead. I don't know where 34 falls in but I would suspect it was used in the 80's as a part time car.

RCR was mainly 3 and 31 originally (I think the 31 was different numbers as a once a year ride until 1996). When Richard was driving as a struggling driver, he ran many numbers like 96. It wasn't until the last few years of his career when he was driving nearly full time that it became the 3. The 3 of course became the 29 when Dale Earnhardt died and Harvick took over. When Harvick left and Austin Dillon took that ride they renumbered it back to the 3. They added the 30 in 2001 (which was going to be Harvick's ride before Dale died, it became Jeff Green's instead), and then later added the 07. The 33 was used with Bowyer before he left for MWR. Later on when Menard came on is when they used 27.

There's different factors into why numbers are chosen like they are. Even some of the teams listed in the original post weren't in an order once. Penske started out as 2 and 37. The 37 was a different team that Penske bought into and then they renumbered it 12. They once had the 77, which was a different team that they bought out. SHR was originally 66 and 70, that they went to 14 for Stewart when he came on and the other car became 39 for Newman (it was a short track number he used). Only when Newman left and the 39 became the 4 did they start to try and do a numerical sequence. JGR is able to 18, 19, 20 because the 19 happened to be available, before that that car ran as a part time car as 80 and 02.

The other side of it is numbers aren't always available. It was mentioned that Roush should've had 5 or 7 because they're available. Technically they aren't, or at least weren't. I believe NASCAR still gives first rights to the 5 to Hendrick (similar to how they did the 3 with RCR when they ran as 29, not :relievedface:. And there's been a 7 car on the track the past few seasons. In fact, Tommy Baldwin Racing - who ran for several years as the 7 before shutting down - attempted to field a car in last year's Daytona 500 (they didn't qualify) and had to use 71 because 7 wasn't available. The same thing occured when Danica was moving to Cup. She was in the 7 in Indycar and used it when she came to the Xfinity Series but had to go with 10 in Cup cause another team had the 7.
 
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Rollo75

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No.
To add to your original point though, RCR's original number is of coarse 3,

RCR's first top level number 13 which was a green car which was run at the 1969 Talladega 500 (23rd)
As Jeremy Murray says, it RCR bumbled around for several seasons running 96.
But that Talladega 500 is probably the single most badly run in NASCAR's history.
 

mtblillie

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With CGR, the 42 isn't the old 41 car. You're right about everything except that they added the 42 when McMurray came on, that at that time they were running the 40 and 41 cars. When they merged with DEI, the 41 team was shut down and the Target sponsorship moved to the 42.

Roush was 6, then 16, 99, 97, 26, 17. They bought the 97 from Greg Pollex in 97 in 1997. The 26 was added in 1998 with Johnny Benson driving but lasted only a couple of years before they shut it down. Later on when Kurt Busch left the 97, they renumbered it to 26 with McMurray driving. The 06 was always a part time ride just to give a driver some starts before their rookie season.

Hendrick was 5, then 25 (35 when Benny Parsons would sub for Tim Richmond), 17, 18, 24, 48, 88, 9. The 46 and 51 numbers were only for entries they fielded for footage for Days of Thunder. Jeff Gordon's number was originally going to be 46 but due to some licensing deals Paramount Pictures had due to the movie, he went with 24 instead. I don't know where 34 falls in but I would suspect it was used in the 80's as a part time car.

RCR was mainly 3 and 31 originally (I think the 31 was different numbers as a once a year ride until 1996). When Richard was driving as a struggling driver, he ran many numbers like 96. It wasn't until the last few years of his career when he was driving nearly full time that it became the 3. The 3 of course became the 29 when Dale Earnhardt died and Harvick took over. When Harvick left and Austin Dillon took that ride they renumbered it back to the 3. They added the 30 in 2001 (which was going to be Harvick's ride before Dale died, it became Jeff Green's instead), and then later added the 07. The 33 was used with Bowyer before he left for MWR. Later on when Menard came on is when they used 27.

There's different factors into why numbers are chosen like they are. Even some of the teams listed in the original post weren't in an order once. Penske started out as 2 and 37. The 37 was a different team that Penske bought into and then they renumbered it 12. They once had the 77, which was a different team that they bought out. SHR was originally 66 and 70, that they went to 14 for Stewart when he came on and the other car became 39 for Newman (it was a short track number he used). Only when Newman left and the 39 became the 4 did they start to try and do a numerical sequence. JGR is able to 18, 19, 20 because the 19 happened to be available, before that that car ran as a part time car as 80 and 02.

The other side of it is numbers aren't always available. It was mentioned that Roush should've had 5 or 7 because they're available. Technically they aren't, or at least weren't. I believe NASCAR still gives first rights to the 5 to Hendrick (similar to how they did the 3 with RCR when they ran as 29, not :relievedface:. And there's been a 7 car on the track the past few seasons. In fact, Tommy Baldwin Racing - who ran for several years as the 7 before shutting down - attempted to field a car in last year's Daytona 500 (they didn't qualify) and had to use 71 because 7 wasn't available. The same thing occured when Danica was moving to Cup. She was in the 7 in Indycar and used it when she came to the Xfinity Series but had to go with 10 in Cup cause another team had the 7.
The 34 was also a Days of Thunder number, but was only ever used in the movie, never fielded during a race. The 17 was Roush's second number and became a full time team in 2000. 33 was used by RCR before Bowyer in the early 2000s, mainly as a part time ride for Kerry Earnhardt, who was trying to break into NASCAR from ARCA (and was probably a favor to Dale). It is also worth a note that DEI never had a numerical order. They started out with the 3 in the Busch series (now Xfinity Series) which was fielded from the 80s until 2000, with a few part time races afterward. When DEI went to the cup series, they started with 1, then added 8 when Jr went to the cup series in 2000. The 15 was added in 2001, and the 01 was added when DEI merged with MB2/MBV.
 

Jeremy Murray

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The 34 was also a Days of Thunder number, but was only ever used in the movie, never fielded during a race. The 17 was Roush's second number and became a full time team in 2000. 33 was used by RCR before Bowyer in the early 2000s, mainly as a part time ride for Kerry Earnhardt, who was trying to break into NASCAR from ARCA (and was probably a favor to Dale). It is also worth a note that DEI never had a numerical order. They started out with the 3 in the Busch series (now Xfinity Series) which was fielded from the 80s until 2000, with a few part time races afterward. When DEI went to the cup series, they started with 1, then added 8 when Jr went to the cup series in 2000. The 15 was added in 2001, and the 01 was added when DEI merged with MB2/MBV.

The 17 couldn't have been Roush's second number when the 16, 26, 97, and 99 all started in the 90's. The 16 started in 1992 with Wally Dallenbach, the 99 with Jeff Burton started in 1996. The 97 was a team they bought mid season in 1997. And the 26 was started in 1998 with Johnny Benson driving.

The 17 didn't start until 1999. In fact, until 1998 the 17 was assigned to Darrell Waltrip's team. So I don't see how you're coming up with the 17 was Roush's second number.

You're right about the 33 was part time before Bowyer came on.

As far as DEI, you're sorta correct. It started and ran many years as Dale's car in the Xfinity Series, then in 1995 or 1996 they started putting other drivers in. First it was Jeff Green, then Steve Park, Dale Jr., and Ron Hornaday. Up until Park and ACDelco came on, it was a Goodwrench #3 most of that time and looked like Dale's Cup car.

When they went to Cup though, 1 was not their first number. It was 14 and was a part time ride. When Park went full time in 1998, DEI and Richard Jackson Motorsports (famous for the Rick Mast #1 Hooters and Skoal cars) swapped numbers.

8 was chosen because it was Ralph Earnhardt's number and was available due to Stavola Brothers Racing (Circuit City car) shutting down at the end of 1998.

15 was because of Bud Moore. Dale drove for him for 2 years in between his two stints with RCR. He chose 15 because Moore's team had recently shut down after around 50 years in the sport and he wanted to pay tribute to him by using that number.

As for 01, you're right that it came from MB2 but there was a reason for that number as well. MB2's car was sponsored by the Army, whose slogan was "An Army of One". Since the 1 taken by DEI they used 01 instead. And that car goes back further and was once the 36 car.

DEI also ran 31 as a part time car some in the late 90's. Dale Jr. ran some races in it before taking over the 3 and so did Hornaday before his time. The choosing of 31 of course was to match RCR's numbers (as they were 3 and 31).

They also ran 16 in the Truck Series. I've never heard why they chose that number, if there was any reason for it or it it just happened to be what was available (3 was being used by RCR).
 

Steven Merzlak

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stevenmerzlak
The 17 for Roush came from Robbie Reiser. He hired Kenseth in 1997 to drive his Busch car, after his normal driver (Tim Bender) was injured in a qualifying crash at Bristol. Roush bought the 17 team after the 1999 season, integrating Kenseth and Reiser into their own system.

The same thing happened with Pollex and the 97 - to minimize costs and make the transition smoother, Roush kept running Pontiacs for the 97 through the end of the season, then started them with the old Thunderbirds early in 1998.
 

Jeremy Murray

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The 17 for Roush came from Robbie Reiser. He hired Kenseth in 1997 to drive his Busch car, after his normal driver (Tim Bender) was injured in a qualifying crash at Bristol. Roush bought the 17 team after the 1999 season, integrating Kenseth and Reiser into their own system.

The same thing happened with Pollex and the 97 - to minimize costs and make the transition smoother, Roush kept running Pontiacs for the 97 through the end of the season, then started them with the old Thunderbirds early in 1998.

I know the number 17 was because of the Robbie Reiser connection - that he was Kenseth's crew chief when he came to Cup - but I thought the buying of the Xfinity team came a little later, like the early 2000's. I wanna say Robbie still owned the Xfinity team for a few years and switched them to Ford before it was sold to Roush.

As far as the 97 goes, Greg Pollex didn't stay out of the ownership business for long. He was the owner of the 32 Kleenex car that Jeff Green drove to a championship (that car becoming the #10 Nesquik car the next season), as well as later buying Jason Keller's #57. He's also related to Sherry Pollex (dad?), Martin Truex Jr.'s girlfriend.
 

mtblillie

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Yeah I was thinking of the 17 being the first full time number, but I totally forgot about Benson's cheerios car and Little's John Deere car. I'm pretty sure Reiser owned the Busch car in 2000 (which was a Chevy), he might have also owned it 2001 but I would have to look to be sure.

I forgot about the part time 14 for DEI, but yeah 1 was the first full time cup number for DEI.
 

Rollo75

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No.
If I get to be Grand Poohbah for a bit...

Chip Ganassi - You're getting 1 and 10
Stewart-Haas - You're getting 4, 14, 41 and 44
Hendrick - You're getting 5, 95, 9 and 59
Roush-Fenway - You can have 6 and 7

Penske - You already have 2, 12, 22 and 21 as a satellite. You're sensible.
 
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Rollo75

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No.
Pronouncement:

Hey Chip,
Now that Kyle Larson has rolled himself in infamy, is it time to swoop in and take the number 7?
1 & 7 is sensible.
 
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Rollo75

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No.
Pronouncement:

Hey Rog,
Now that Melon Man has taken a ride at Chip Ganassi's mob, can you get them to take #7?
Then you could put Austin Cindric in a Marty Robbins retro purple and yellow #42.

Spire can have 77 & 88
Hendrick can have 5 again.

Everyone wins!

Love,
Rollo
 
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Cola83

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I wouldn't call the #5 cursed - however Kyle Busch didn't have much success when he was driving it... (You missed him)

Plus I drive the #5 in my nr2003 league, I win often and I have won a few season Championships. :)
 

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